Comments on: Something Japanese That I Can Never Understand

By: double

double — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:20:54 +0000

RZ > It’s alright to use 社交辞令 in formal scenarios such as school and work. One should be polite in such scenarios. I did say that hypocrisy should not be used in daily life, but I never said anything about real life. In my opinion, daily life is among really close friends. When it’s used in daily life among close friends, I think that’s when it goes overboard.

By: RZ

RZ — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:37:28 +0000

I think its a little presumptuous to say that hypocrisy shouldn’t be practised in real life. What you see as hypocrisy, I see as tact. If a girl whom you go to class with asked you whether the top she was wearing suited her when it didn’t, would you then be ‘unhypocritical’ and say “no, it doesn’t suit you at all. you would be better off not wasting your money on clothes in this style”? In the same way, would you tell a lecturer that his teaching style sucked and, the reason students were regularly skipping his classes? Your ’straightforwardness’ implies that you will take actions like this. Or would you ignore your teacher then? All of us are hypocritical to a certain extent. I think the main problem lies in our intentions. For the Japanese, its a way of life. Its what their society is built upon and its what they use to get through life. Classifying 社交辞令 as a no-can-do shows a very narrow-minded way of thinking, which I don’t think would hold you in good stead, seeing that you intend to enter university.

By: TP

TP — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:36:26 +0000

This is what happens when you are in two extremes: on one hand, you got too straightforward mentality, and that makes a litigating trigger-happy society. When you have a too polite mentality and beating around the bush, you have the most frustrating society.

It’s all about moderation: you can use white lies when the situation needs you to, like negotiations and appeasing the superiors, but at the same time, among close friends and significant others, you should refrain from being so overly anachronistic about telling the truth.

I like the Japanese; they refined the art of shakoujirei, which basically is a form of poetic speech, but I wouldn’t try making it a habit to beat around the bush.

By: Soshi

Soshi — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:50:32 +0000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZUVQuk-juw has a really interesting talk/discussion on Japan’s expenditure (my Japanese is no where near understanding the technical jargon they use but I guessed as much XD) and ahaha, well, this certainly kind of dispels the whole notion that the Japanese try to avoid conflict. XD

@Choo: It’s Japanese, but in kanji.

By: Sylon Beta

Sylon Beta — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:14:15 +0000

I find that, oddly enough, I do in fact suffer from a bit of 社交辞令, but as I’m an expressive person (It’s easy to pick up my mood from my voice or actions) I find that it compliments it well. Still, though, I have no problem saying what I mean when the situation calls for it. I suppose the direct mentality in me still lives on.

@Choo: I’m pretty sure it’s Japanese.

@Hinano: Some of the links in the comments section don’t work; the videos were removed. One of them has an error message which plays a footage of a boat in the background instead of the usual ear-splitting screech and black background.

By: double

double — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:49:47 +0000

don777 > Ah thanks, I’ve learnt something new ^^ Maybe the reason why I’ve rather against 社交辞令 and unable to appreciate the art of Japanese indirect expression is due to personal experience. Before that, I wasn’t that aginst it. Anyway, I looking forward to meeting you next month when I go over =)

Lupus > My liking’s rather moderated. I don’t really like too much politeness, but at the same time, I don’t like what you described about the western world either. That would just be pure retarded, LOL. Just some normal interaction, telling me what you what and what you don’t want nicely and not beating around the bush would be ideal.

Hinano > I just don’t understand, lol.

Choo > Japanese. The romanji is shakoujirei.

By: Choo

Choo — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:25:02 +0000

err 社交辞令
is that chinese or japanese? any ideas. lol

By: Hinano

Hinano — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:03:45 +0000

I actually saw a video on this on niconico, someone linked it to one of my related posts on this issue..
ah found it!
http://www.minaidehazukashii.com/hinano/2007/10/31/japanese-racism-at-its-finest-a-can-of-worms/
There’s some links in there showing Japanese and Americans who live in Japan discussing this whole thing. And the Americans are liek Why cant you just SAY what you mean? And the Japanese are like how can you just SAY what you mean?

lol

By: Lupus

Lupus — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:57:49 +0000

Actually, the politeness is one of the things that I like about Japanese culture. Seeing how in the Western world everyone’s all “ME ME ME FUCK YOU GO DIE ME ME ME”, I really enjoyed an environment where not everyone’s getting angry over being bumped into and threatening law suits.

It’s definitely not necessary in interactions with close friends and family though, and I don’t think it’s used in those situations even by Japanese people. I think this is one of the reasons why Tomoya in CLANNAD resents his father so much - his dad does this whole shakoujirei thing to him, and he feels like he’s not family.

I hope what Hinano was saying is a rare case, because that’s gone beyond the realm of politeness to that of retardation.

By: don777

don777 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:32:31 +0000

double > “innocent flattery” has no Japanese direct translation word. I think いい嘘[ii uso =white lie] has close meaning. “innocent flattery” sometimes means お世辞[oseji], and sometimes means 言い訳[iiwake].

Soshi > Thanks for good two “white lie” examples. Thease white lies are highly common even in close good friends(^^;. I think these “white lie” are not lies at all. It’s the art of Japanease indirect expression…